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Trigger Response

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:51 pm
by Reaper 278
Hello All,

I'm currently running a DBoys M4-CQBR (like this: http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?c ... s_id=28047) with stock internals. It's my first Airsoft gun. I've had it about 2 years now, bit i've been playing with it regularly for a little over a year now. I've probably put well over 12,000 bb's through it (95% through semi-auto fire) and been using a 9.6 NiMH battery, so i don't think I've been taxing the internals too much.

I've handled a few other AEGS (G&G's, Echo1's KWA) and found that I have pretty bad trigger response, at least in comparison to something like a KWA M4 (which will be my next purchase). i'll fire 2-3 bb's to someone else's 5-7, so it's hard to go head to head in CQB when there's a big ROF discrepancy. Most of this comes as a result of lockups. I'm sure some of you have experienced this, when you pull the trigger too fast and everything locks up. You flip it to full auto for a moment to get everything moving again, then its back to semi. as a result, I've developed a trigger discipline that errs on the side of caution, not wanting to react too quickly so that it locks up.

My question is this. I don't want to spend too much on upgrades on the DBoys, as i'm trying to save up for a KWA CQR. Would I get any difference in trigger response if I install a high torque motor (http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?c ... s_id=33030) ? Also, would running something like this (http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.p ... ts_id=9241) give me any sort of increase in trigger response? I'm talking either/or/in conjunction with. Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks.

- Reaper

Re: Trigger Response

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:36 pm
by Moondog
Here's a quick answer to your question:
A. Yes, the high torque should increase your trigger response depending on how much stronger it is compared to your current motor.
B. No, a MOSFET switch will NOT improve trigger response or ROF, despite many overly optimistic reports by players and manufacturers stating that it does. And the type of MOSFET you linked to definitely does not because it does not bypass your trigger contacts.


For the long story:

Trigger Response = The delay when you pull the trigger and the motor revs and when your gun actually fires. This is boosted by HIGH TORQUE setups
Rate of Fire = How many BB's fire out of your gun in every second (or minute). This is governed by the TOP SPEED of your setup ie. HIGH SPEED setups

Trigger response and ROF (Rate of Fire) are two different things but in airsoft AEG's they are related. Both are dependent on:
Gear ratio
Voltage of your battery
Strength of your motor
Strength of your spring

Given that 99% of airsofters don't change their gearing anymore (ie. changed to a toque up ratio gear set). Let's to the other 4 things.

Bigger Battery
You can easily increase your trigger response and ROF by switching to a battery with a higher voltage and amperage. If you use a 9.6v small type battery, your trigger response will be much snappier with a 9.6v large battery (which has a higher amperage). If you don't have room for a large battery, switch to a 9.9v LiOn or 11.1vLiPoly. These batteries both have higher voltage and higher peak amp output.

But higher voltage causes more melting of your trigger contacts. That's why its recommended that you install a MOSFET switch to bypass the high voltage current around your trigger contacts. But because MOSFET switches are present with high voltage LiPoly setups, players mistakenly attribute better trigger response with MOSFETS. Bypassing your trigger contacts does improve overall efficiency of the circuit but the effect on trigger response probably negligible at best.

With the Avocado and other In-Line MOSFETS which DO NOT bypass the trigger contacts (ie. do not require rewiring and soldering), there is obviously no benefit of bypassing your high resistance trigger contacts, so no improvement in your trigger response.


High Torque Motor
Torque is turning strength and a high torque motor is more efficient at turning your gears than stock motors. Though some new stock motors are actually much stronger than stock motors from years ago and are nearly as strong as 'upgrade' motors used to be.


Weaker Springs
Lower FPS springs provide much less resistance to compression and provide both fast trigger response and higher ROF


Adjustable Triggers
There are customizable mechanical components to your triggers setup which can change the amount of pull required to make the electrical contact in your system. These are currently only available for V2 gearboxes.

Re: Trigger Response

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:59 pm
by Erebus
Moondog hit on the high points, so the only thing I will add is that, as noted, a MOSFET like you are looking at will not directly increase your trigger response. However the MOSFET you linked does come with Active Braking. This should prevent your weapon from locking up regardless of how fast you are pulling the trigger. Just my two cents without getting into messing with the gear box. Good Luck.

Re: Trigger Response

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 am
by Reaper 278
Thanks for the responses so far guys. I'm trying hard not to open up my gearbox if I don't have to. Like i mentioned before, I'm running stock internals, and the motor has no markings whatsoever. I guess what I'm looking for is a little snappier response. If what I'm reading is correct, it wouldn't hurt to put in a new High Torque Motor, since I'm running a stock spring which leaves me around 350+/- FPS.

I'm currently running a Tenergy 9.6 1600 MaH NiMH butterfly battery (Since i'm wired to a Crane Stock), and I don't really want to jump into LiPO's both for the cost and, to be honest, I'm not too comfortable with them.

Re: Trigger Response

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:21 am
by Shogun Mitsu
Also you could try this by Speed Airsoft http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=37465 . I have this in a custom build I made & the amount of trigger pull before engaging the trigger assembly is totally up to you. You can make it a hairpin trigger, or a heavier delayed trigger. I prefer the hairpin trigger setting as it allows you to pump out more bb's on semi-auto. Speed Airsoft has some pretty good stuff!

Re: Trigger Response

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:50 am
by Dano95
Moondog wrote:Here's a quick answer to your question:
A. Yes, the high torque should increase your trigger response depending on how much stronger it is compared to your current motor.
B. No, a MOSFET switch will NOT improve trigger response or ROF, despite many overly optimistic reports by players and manufacturers stating that it does. And the type of MOSFET you linked to definitely does not because it does not bypass your trigger contacts.


For the long story:

Trigger Response = The delay when you pull the trigger and the motor revs and when your gun actually fires
Rate of Fire = How many BB's fire out of your gun in every second (or minute)

Trigger response and ROF (Rate of Fire) are two different things but in airsoft AEG's they are related. Both are dependent on:
Gear ratio
Voltage of your battery
Strength of your motor
Strength of your spring

Given that 99% of airsofters don't change their gearing anymore (ie. changed to a toque up ratio gear set). Let's to the other 4 things.

Bigger Battery
You can easily increase your trigger response and ROF by switching to a battery with a higher voltage and amperage. If you use a 9.6v small type battery, your trigger response will be much snappier with a 9.6v large battery (which has a higher amperage). If you don't have room for a large battery, switch to a 9.9v LiOn or 11.1vLiPoly. These batteries both have higher voltage and higher peak amp output.

But higher voltage causes more melting of your trigger contacts. That's why its recommended that you install a MOSFET switch to bypass the high voltage current around your trigger contacts. But because MOSFET switches are present with high voltage LiPoly setups, players mistakenly attribute better trigger response with MOSFETS. Bypassing your trigger contacts does improve overall efficiency of the circuit but the effect on trigger response probably negligible at best.

With the Avocado and other In-Line MOSFETS which DO NOT bypass the trigger contacts (ie. do not require rewiring and soldering), there is obviously no benefit of bypassing your high resistance trigger contacts, so no improvement in your trigger response.


High Torque Motor
Torque is turning strength and a high torque motor is more efficient at turning your gears than stock motors. Though some new stock motors are actually much stronger than stock motors from years ago and are nearly as strong as 'upgrade' motors used to be.

Weaker Springs
Lower FPS springs provide much less resistance to compression and provide both fast trigger response and higher ROF
the issue with an AB fet is motor heat up tho and for better trigger response a nice lipo a highspeed gearset and a high tourque motor will give great trigger response along with a hair trigger