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 Post subject: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:54 pm 
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I will start with the story about the forgrip I just attached to my KWA KM4 SR10. I found it somewhat comical the length of time and variety of tools I used to get the forgrip to fit on the gun.

So I have this very long, relatively heavy AEG and I've noticed keeping it steady for extended periods of time (lets say 5 minutes in the same position) is rather difficult. As a result I opted for what I thought would be a quick way out, attach my JG Tactical AK47 forgrip onto the SR10. Well almost immediately I discovered that the rail systems on the two guns are different (SURPRISE!). Well at this point I've already made the decision to get the grip onto the gun. . . So I decide well since rail on the SR 10 is wider and deeper I'll just sandpaper it down, then another issue came to my attention I had lost my pad of sandpaper. I think to myself what else works like sandpaper I immediately bend over and pick up my katana (a samurai sword) and try to use it, then I discovered a 41 inch sword with a inch and change width blade would not work. I go to the next tool on the list, a flat head screwdriver however it was not sharp enough and I quickly gave up. The following tools I went to the kitchen for, a bread knife and steak knife, they both worked. . . a little. So after an hour of grinding away at the forgrip I try to attach it and it gets stuck. . . I didn't want to damage the rail, but I didn't want it 3/4 of the the way slid onto the SR10 so I decide to wiggle it out. This does NOT work and I crack the forgrip where it meets the rail (as it is plastic and not of the highest quality). The crack is about an inch or so long and I manage to pop out the forgrip. This cracked forgrip still seemed salvageable to me so I broke off the cracked piece with pliers and then removed roughly the same sized portion from the other side of the forgrip. At this point of exhausted the tools I've used to solve most my issues. I then decide to use fire to melt the plastic to a point where I can work the plastic a bit. I soon find out that I have no lighters, only matches. After going through a dozen matches a thought occurs to me I could use a candle. So I finally used a candle to make the plastic workable, but the pliers are too clumsy to work the plastic. . . I then look for the closest object that I could use to maneuver the plastic, chopsticks. Finally after two hours of work I finally manage to get the grip on the gun with it working.

Tools Used:
- Samurai sword
- Flat head screwdriver
- Bread knife
- Steak knife
- Pliers
- Matches
- Candle
- Chopsticks

Moral of the story:
Get a tool set.

-----

Now my question:

What would be a good alternate forgrip?

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:56 pm 
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1) Get a Leatherman
2) Maybe a Fivegrip? :lol:

I'm just messing with you, honestly I would try a Magpul Afg if I where you. It provides a more natural position for your hand instead of the "Gangsta Grip" we usually see guys holding like ice cream cones. That ice cream cone grip tends to give the wrist a seriously uneccessary workout in my opinion after a few hours in the field. I only use the grip as a refference point for my reaction side hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:00 am
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Location: Jackson Heights, NY
First, a Samurai sword may be a tool, but it cannot replace a screwdriver, file, or anything that comes out a Craftsman toolbox. You're more than likely going to do one of three things.

1. Break/damage your airsoft gun OR your sword.
2. Break/damage your airsoft gun AND damage/break your sword.
3. Break/damage your airsoft gun AND hurt yourself.

Any way you slice it, bad things will happen. Creative thinking of this kind isn't worth a trip to the emergency room. Best bet, pick up a cheap tool set. Another thing to remember in future, measure twice, cut once. It will save you future headaches. Another thing you need in your toolkit is patience. When you get frustrated, you don't think, you act. When that happens, all bets are off. Odds are you're going to be mad because you broke something or you hurt yourself. When all else fails, ask for help. Help isn't a dirty word. **** is a dirty word. That's what you'd be screaming if you missed with your Katana and wedged the blade into your femur or foot.

Swords, like guns, aren't toys. Unless they're plastic and painted funky colors. Same thing applies to the steak knife and even the butter knife too. They're for eating and cutting meat/bread/cheese, not dealing with a phillips head. I'm not saying this to get on your case, but any number of these things that you used to jerry-rig a fix, could either send you to a hospital or end up leaving a blood trail on your parents white living room carpet.

When something gets stuck, take your time. The more force you apply means the odds of an accident go up. Plastic shears and snaps in fun ways. Something gets stuck, take a breath and see where. Then go backwards from there. Examine the problem and think of ways around it rather than applying brute force. Brute force ends up breaking things and wasting money. Wow...where the hell did that rant come from?...

Back to the question, I'm with Angel. Magpul AFG or RVG. Both are easy to install, shouldn't get stuck and are very comfortable to use. Another option would be handstops. EHobbyAsia, LaRue, and Magpul offer these alternatives to foregrips.

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG414/46 - Magpul AFG
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG412/46 - Magpul RVG
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG511/46 - Magpul XTM Hand Stop Kit
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-handstop-2-piece-set - LaRue Handstop
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/t-s-c-cnc-gear-sector-rail-mount-hand-stop-titanium-green.html - Gear Sector Hand Stop

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Primary: KWA SR7
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:41 am 
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@BHunter

Since I was trying to widen where the grip attached to the rail I could not use the sword at all. I basically picked up the sword compared it to the width of the grip and put it down. Whenever I used a knife/sword to work on something I always put the slicing edge away from me and cut outward (like everyone is supposed to). When I used the steak and bread knife I was using the same method, I have cut myself in the past and learned not go cut towards myself or apply a lot of force. So that was my attempt at explaining my safety protocol with pointy objects.

I can't really make up an excuse for using brute force to remove the forgrip, in my mind it was either saw it off with the bread knife or try to salvage it by using brute to remove it.

Thanks for the list of suggestions!

@Mitsukai

Thanks for the suggestion!

P.S. I have hardwood floors BHunter :P

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Location: Jackson Heights, NY
It would be bad ju-ju to mess up a good hardwood floor. My point was mostly in jest, but I've seen quite a few accidents happen when someone gets tunnel vision trying to fix/mend/unwedge something. The response was more toward anyone else trying to do something similar. Also had a really bad/funny image in my head once you said 'samurai sword'.

Screwdrivers are some of the best tools out there, either for well, screws, or to pry something apart safely. I'd suggest a light twist rather than trying to pry something off as if you're opening a crate with a crowbar. Creative problem solving is a good thing to have.

Back to the foregrip. The products I listed all use a similar grip, like how you'd hold a sword, to stabilize your gun. It also has the added benefit of giving you a lower profile, since you won't have an elbow jutting out to one side. Here are some examples (provided by Magpul) of what you can do and the options you have with foregrips.

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Image

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Primary: KWA SR7
Secondary: KWA M226 PTP

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:55 pm 
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It always struck me as odd that the traditional foregrip is considered an unnatural angle, but the Magpul AFG isn't...clever marketing if you ask me on that point. Although it's arguable if that method of gripping the rifle enhances control. I've never had a problem with the traditional foregrip, but then, I can make 1st round hits to 500 yards with iron sights too...call me old fashioned. I didn't even know handstops or that grip method existed until I saw Magpul touting it.

I definitely think they look good though (the AFG). It's a sleek design and I'd like to get one on my 10/22.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:41 am 
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phridum wrote:
It always struck me as odd that the traditional foregrip is considered an unnatural angle, but the Magpul AFG isn't...clever marketing if you ask me on that point. Although it's arguable if that method of gripping the rifle enhances control. I've never had a problem with the traditional foregrip, but then, I can make 1st round hits to 500 yards with iron sights too...call me old fashioned. I didn't even know handstops or that grip method existed until I saw Magpul touting it.

I definitely think they look good though (the AFG). It's a sleek design and I'd like to get one on my 10/22.


The Afg is really comfortable in my opinion because it allows your hand to be palm side up allowing you to use a more natural form as opposed to gripping the pistol grip which forces you to use more muscles in the hand & wrist. I think its more affective for me because of my Iaido background, you use one hand to control the movement of the sword & the other to guide it into position, its more muscle memory for me than anything else I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:13 am 
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For me, the real selling point on the foregrip is when you live a lifestyle where the rifle is in your hands 24/7. I always found it much easier to support the rifle through dynamic movements like running and jumping. Another huge benefit is commonality of grip for ambidextrous use. Activating lasers and lights was better too.

But keep in mind, I haven't used the AFG, so it may very well do all that I listed and better. I also don't have a sword fighting background, but I guess more people do than I originally thought! =

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:51 am 
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I personally use an AFG on my real AR15 - it definitely helps create an index point and with my grip it helps my accuracy greatly.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting Forgrip Story and a Question About Forgrips
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:57 pm 
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I'll probably end up with an AFG a vertical forgrip on my rifle just doesn't feel comfortable no matter where I put it. I have very little experience in swordsmanship (more practice with Western styles than Eastern) but even so the AFG just seems more comfortable.

@Mitsukai

You might be interested in meeting my cousin he's been practicing Iaido for a few years now. I find it a bit interesting that he's Russian living in Germany learning Iaido, but one might find my forgrip story interesting too. Maybe I'll bring him to a skirmish with me when he visits.

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