OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Alchy-ops »

I had a bunch of things typed out for my AAR however non of it was anything good about the event. I decided not to post any of it instead I will just say that this was by far the worst day of airsofting I think I have ever played. It was so bad that my team (11 players) left the game early.
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Tsuyoi »

Carbon wrote:Well seeing as though the game has concluded, and there is not an AAR yet, I thought I would post some after game thoughts right here. To start, overall the game was fun. Fallout is always a fun themed game to go to and it is a ton of fun that Fallout is the game it it based off of. So thank you to NYC Airsoft for being so awesome for not just Fallout, but every Op you guys do here on the East coast.

Now for the game.

I felt that phase 1 went fine. I had a decent amount of ammo for my sniper rifle and things were going well. Thats until enclave rolled around, which also leads me into phase 2.....

Phase 2 was a bust. Stupid as I was, I went to get my AEG, but realized it was kind of useless as i had like 20 bbs and only hi caps. And I felt the enclave was terrible. Whose idea was it to have a team of guys that can shoot full auto with unlimited bbs and take 9 shots to kill when we all have bolt actions and shotguns? I realize the point was to simulate the video game better, but it was a terrible idea. Considering that thanks to one of them, I was shot in the neck which made half my face go numb. Yeah. That was fun. But I am just saying. It is still airsoft, and I know I am not the only one who felt like this was stupid and made the game not very fun. During phase 2, my dads gun went down so I spent the rest of phase 2 fixing it. The sad part is, I had more fun fixing the gun than I did in Phase 2 because I had no ammo and because of how unfair the enclave was.

Im not trying to trash the game. No. Im just trying to provide the honest feelings of someone that was playing during the game, without trying to sugarcoat things. I understand these games take a lot of work to plan, but you have to think of it from the players perspective. Do you want to be shot at by a full auto MG-42 (there is a reason its called Hitler's Buzzsaw) while all you have is a bolt action sniper rifle that you need to get 9 hits with? Honestly, some things need to be thought out better.

And phase 3 was a ton of fun cause I had ammo. Except for the city where the juggernaut guys would get killed, walk around a building and come back and shoot me full auto with a 40 RPS gun. Why even try for the city? You cant kill those guys. But o well.

Overall it was fun. And I am looking forward to future Ops, hopefully soon. I just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions to hopefully make this game even better.

Thank you
While I wasn't at this years game, having been one of the mutants during the previous Fallout, and having people in my squad as Enclave, I'm going to give my perspective/2 cents.

Fallout isn't meant to be a typical mil-sim airsoft game. Think of it as the "survival horror" version of Fallout. Think playing dead space on max difficulty, resident evil, etc, where ammo is EXTREMELY rare, enemies take a lot to kill, and the main goal isn't just to get as many kills as you can, but rather to reach objectives.

To simulate that, we limit players to handguns/shotguns etc, limited ammo, semi-auto and such during the first two phases. The NPCs have full auto/weapons, and take multiple shots to kill. The point is, you're not supposed to engage them head on 1 on 1, or even small squad on 1. Remember, these NPCs are not meant to be another player faction, they are meant to be a force of nature, a challenge to avoid, plan around, a huge deterrent to you reaching your objective, and a nightmare to take down. Think boss battle.

Having been to 3 previous Fallout games, all of which were very successful and generally met with positive feedback, and been both on the NPC team and against them, I can say that the best way to deal with them is to either fall back from them and circumnavigate, or rush them with far superior numbers (5 or 6 to 1) and overwhelm them. Expect heavy losses. In the game where I played as a mutant, a team working together was able to eliminate 1 enclave and 3 mutants defending a position. Yes, they suffered heavy losses. Yes, it took them almost an hour. But that's the POINT. They were able to obtain several pieces of loot plus significant ammo from the defended location. Remember, these are NPCs, they're not meant to be on an equal footing with you. In fact, they can't even win the game. They're just there to provide flair and make the game that much more interesting/challenging.

From a more behind the scenes logistical level: The NPCs need to be overpowered for balance. You have teams of 50-75 players, with small squads of maybe 1 enclave or 3-5 mutants defending objectives. If they were also limited to pistols/semi auto or could be killed in 1-2 shots, they would serve no purpose, be very easily overrun, and generally be no different than being a very small and underpowered player faction.

Having said that, what is crucial is that the NPCs play fairly and AS NPCs, instead of as "players". This means playing to improve everyone else's experience, and not just "to have fun myself/try to kill whoever I can". Be fair, call your hits, don't go completely nuts unloading an entire mag at 1 player, don't all bunch together and basically make a location completely unreachable, wait the fair 5 minutes before respawning, walk OUT OF VISION RANGE before respawning, and don't respawn revenge kill.

It sounds more to me like some of the NPC players were not following the spirit of their role, and less of an actual issue with the organization/rules of the game.
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Speefy »

I'll throw a bit of perspective here.

Last year, I was an NPC player. A mutant who required 3 hits to kill.
This year, I was an embed referee for Hudson Union.

-One of the things I noticed this year was the NPC's actively going in force in 'hunter killer' squads. Late phase 1, a team of 4-5 mutants attacked the Hudson Union's vault. This contradicts how I played last year as one of the Mutants, as we were given orders to 'hold position and defend objectives', rather than actively pursue players.

I can haphazard a guess that players were not happy to be actively attacked by the NPCs, especially at their vault, as opposed to encountering them 'in the wild'.

-There were general complaints about the choice of bb color: This is unavoidable as this helps differentiate who would be using personal bbs as opposed to game scavenged rounds. One player did run into an issue because of the white rounds being utilized prior to phase 3, however, this was due to an oversight: During chrono, white bbs were loaded into the player's magazine. The player used a high capacity magazine, and as such, neglected to fully empty the chrono rounds.

-There were reports of players not calling hits. Whether this is due to the armor / padding of NPC players, or simply unable to tell if the black bbs were impacting, I cannot say for certain. Force on force, players seemed to be calling their hits without issue. One of the mutants who attacked our vault called his hit as my sidearm impacted him.

-A general observation from an Embed Wastelander suggested that Hudson Union members were not waiting their full 3 minute bleedout period. I cannot confirm this, as the general group I spectated and went with were comprised of veteran players who observed their bleedout limits.

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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Cerberus »

Tsuyoi wrote:
Carbon wrote:Well seeing as though the game has concluded, and there is not an AAR yet, I thought I would post some after game thoughts right here. To start, overall the game was fun. Fallout is always a fun themed game to go to and it is a ton of fun that Fallout is the game it it based off of. So thank you to NYC Airsoft for being so awesome for not just Fallout, but every Op you guys do here on the East coast.

Now for the game.

I felt that phase 1 went fine. I had a decent amount of ammo for my sniper rifle and things were going well. Thats until enclave rolled around, which also leads me into phase 2.....

Phase 2 was a bust. Stupid as I was, I went to get my AEG, but realized it was kind of useless as i had like 20 bbs and only hi caps. And I felt the enclave was terrible. Whose idea was it to have a team of guys that can shoot full auto with unlimited bbs and take 9 shots to kill when we all have bolt actions and shotguns? I realize the point was to simulate the video game better, but it was a terrible idea. Considering that thanks to one of them, I was shot in the neck which made half my face go numb. Yeah. That was fun. But I am just saying. It is still airsoft, and I know I am not the only one who felt like this was stupid and made the game not very fun. During phase 2, my dads gun went down so I spent the rest of phase 2 fixing it. The sad part is, I had more fun fixing the gun than I did in Phase 2 because I had no ammo and because of how unfair the enclave was.

Im not trying to trash the game. No. Im just trying to provide the honest feelings of someone that was playing during the game, without trying to sugarcoat things. I understand these games take a lot of work to plan, but you have to think of it from the players perspective. Do you want to be shot at by a full auto MG-42 (there is a reason its called Hitler's Buzzsaw) while all you have is a bolt action sniper rifle that you need to get 9 hits with? Honestly, some things need to be thought out better.

And phase 3 was a ton of fun cause I had ammo. Except for the city where the juggernaut guys would get killed, walk around a building and come back and shoot me full auto with a 40 RPS gun. Why even try for the city? You cant kill those guys. But o well.

Overall it was fun. And I am looking forward to future Ops, hopefully soon. I just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions to hopefully make this game even better.

Thank you
While I wasn't at this years game, having been one of the mutants during the previous Fallout, and having people in my squad as Enclave, I'm going to give my perspective/2 cents.

Fallout isn't meant to be a typical mil-sim airsoft game. Think of it as the "survival horror" version of Fallout. Think playing dead space on max difficulty, resident evil, etc, where ammo is EXTREMELY rare, enemies take a lot to kill, and the main goal isn't just to get as many kills as you can, but rather to reach objectives.

To simulate that, we limit players to handguns/shotguns etc, limited ammo, semi-auto and such during the first two phases. The NPCs have full auto/weapons, and take multiple shots to kill. The point is, you're not supposed to engage them head on 1 on 1, or even small squad on 1. Remember, these NPCs are not meant to be another player faction, they are meant to be a force of nature, a challenge to avoid, plan around, a huge deterrent to you reaching your objective, and a nightmare to take down. Think boss battle.

Having been to 3 previous Fallout games, all of which were very successful and generally met with positive feedback, and been both on the NPC team and against them, I can say that the best way to deal with them is to either fall back from them and circumnavigate, or rush them with far superior numbers (5 or 6 to 1) and overwhelm them. Expect heavy losses. In the game where I played as a mutant, a team working together was able to eliminate 1 enclave and 3 mutants defending a position. Yes, they suffered heavy losses. Yes, it took them almost an hour. But that's the POINT. They were able to obtain several pieces of loot plus significant ammo from the defended location. Remember, these are NPCs, they're not meant to be on an equal footing with you. In fact, they can't even win the game. They're just there to provide flair and make the game that much more interesting/challenging.

From a more behind the scenes logistical level: The NPCs need to be overpowered for balance. You have teams of 50-75 players, with small squads of maybe 1 enclave or 3-5 mutants defending objectives. If they were also limited to pistols/semi auto or could be killed in 1-2 shots, they would serve no purpose, be very easily overrun, and generally be no different than being a very small and underpowered player faction.

Having said that, what is crucial is that the NPCs play fairly and AS NPCs, instead of as "players". This means playing to improve everyone else's experience, and not just "to have fun myself/try to kill whoever I can". Be fair, call your hits, don't go completely nuts unloading an entire mag at 1 player, don't all bunch together and basically make a location completely unreachable, wait the fair 5 minutes before respawning, walk OUT OF VISION RANGE before respawning, and don't respawn revenge kill.

It sounds more to me like some of the NPC players were not following the spirit of their role, and less of an actual issue with the organization/rules of the game.
But the enclave attacked the wastelanders base we had to face them or we would of lost the objective
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by sonic »

Cerberus wrote:
Tsuyoi wrote:It sounds more to me like some of the NPC players were not following the spirit of their role, and less of an actual issue with the organization/rules of the game.
But the enclave attacked the wastelanders base we had to face them or we would of lost the objective
Just to clarify, the Enclave never left Delta sector. There was only one. The 15 mutants roamed the AO without regard to who was where to wreak havoc, keep everyone on their toes and disseminate lootables. The Merchant was wandering about, looking to make trades.

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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Tsuyoi »

So just have the npcs dial it back a bit next time, esp in the first two phases. Last time the mutants just chilled out defending loot at stationary locations. This gave the teams a tactical choice between either skirmishing against each other for whatever loot was spread out/other teams had recovered (since you can steal loot), or attempting to assault strongholds of enclave/mutants to obtain significant loot/ammo (similar to defeating some boss mob for epic loot)
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Alchy-ops »

Speefy wrote:-A general observation from an Embed Wastelander suggested that Hudson Union members were not waiting their full 3 minute bleedout period. I cannot confirm this, as the general group I spectated and went with were comprised of veteran players who observed their bleedout limits.
I can confirm that all 3 teams had players not waiting there 3 minute bleedout times. I think this was partly due to having walk-ons in the game who didn't know the rules.
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Alchy-ops »

Cerberus wrote: But the enclave attacked the wastelanders base we had to face them or we would of lost the objective
The closes the enclave got to the wastelanders base was the oil Derek.
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Cerberus »

Alchy-ops wrote:
Cerberus wrote: But the enclave attacked the wastelanders base we had to face them or we would of lost the objective
The closes the enclave got to the wastelanders base was the oil Derek.
Enclave was in the vault one almost shot me point blank with his AK i had to wave a dead rag in his face before he shot me
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Re: OP: Fallout 6 EAST - NY 8.24.14

Post by Arsenal »

Cerberus wrote:
Alchy-ops wrote:
Cerberus wrote: But the enclave attacked the wastelanders base we had to face them or we would of lost the objective
The closes the enclave got to the wastelanders base was the oil Derek.
Enclave was in the vault one almost shot me point blank with his AK i had to wave a dead rag in his face before he shot me
There was only one enclave. He was the one dressed in all black armor with an mg. The others were mutants
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